“It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand.” ~ Apache Proverb
We have heard before of the Native American’s as having had their own unique and effective modes of warfare, self defense, martial arts and survival. As having been practiced and skilled warriors who perfected themselves, used weaponry, trained and readied themselves for confrontation. With each tribe having a unique method of combat it would be both unfair and unwise to overlook the most formidable opponents to the ever expanding american west at the time of colonization. They marked the pages of history with their skill, tenacity and effectiveness in battle, and were and still are elite in their own uniquely developed style of fighting. The Apaches.
Advocate for Native American culture and history, actor, producer, author, Action Martial Arts Magazine’s Hall of Fame Inductee, grand-master, Martial Arts History Museum in Burbank CA Inductee and representative of the oldest American warrior tradition, GM Robert Redfeather gives us insight into his journey through Native American Apache combat, why it is so effective, it’s cultural significance and origins in this first time interview with Martial Journal.
Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed for Martial Journal. It’s an honor to have you answer my questions about such a proud warrior tradition. To begin this interview I’d like to ask – how the art of Apache Knife was first introduced to you? – what was it like for you initially learning the Mescalero Apache methods of combat and survival?, and what does the art mean to you personally?.
I was initially taught at the age of 15. I came home injured with a knife wound on my foot. My Grandfather was teasing me. I had been training in martial arts since I was 5. He laughed that it did not help me. He then said it was time to teach me our ways. Initially it was a painful lesson. I was taught with tree branches as the substitute for the knife. He told me to “kill” him. If I was hit by the branch I was therefore cut by the knife. I was hit hard so I would learn from the pain. My grandfather taught me the value of pain as a learning tool of respect for the knife. Pain also teaches character and accelerates the learning process. Being able to handle pain is an Apache trait of survival. I learned more from my grandfather in the first four days about real fighting than I learned from the years of studying martial arts in a controlled environment. I learned that during knife fighting your enemy does not have to be skilled to cut, stab and kill you. It is the untrained knife that can kill you.
Once my grandfather started teaching me knife fighting it sparked an interest to learn more about my culture. My grandfather taught me two words Nagondzog It is an old term that means war or fight. It is like a game of chess. It is teaches you to put the enemy where you can outflank them. He told me knife fighting was like a wolf herding the sheep.. “If you move your body and control the knife you can control your enemy’s movements, as a wolf directs and singles out a sheep by herding. You will lead and the knife will follow. To move and hold a knife properly is to influence the enemy to your will.” He said The second word was Nagonłkaadí, it means war, fight or combat. That is in reference to when at war you do not give out warnings you fight to kill. My Grandfather also taught me death is a part of life and life is valuable. It is better to walk away and live to fight another day. Apaches value life. There were few Apaches compared to their enemy. They were smart and were not afraid to run away to fight another day when odds were more in their favor I have a saying to my students “I do not expect you to fight all the battles but I expect you to stand on your own two feet. Choose your battles wisely,”
Learning survival skills taught me to observe nature. To take the clues nature provides for hunting and finding water. I experienced fasting which was good for healing and cleansing your body. Fasting taught you respect food and not be wasteful. It taught me that I do not like fasting. Using all your senses are important. Using the resources of nature being familiar with nature. Survival is also keeping your head on straight. My Grandfather taught me how important the knife is for your survival. You can make your won knife if you have nothing. You can whitle to make weapons such as spears and arrows.
“Apache Knife a Way of Life.” It is a part of who I am.
What makes Apache knife so unique when compared to other weapons based fighting styles or other Native American fighting methods?
Shadow wolf was my Apache Knife Fighting name. Over time it was translated into ghostdog. To be called a dog would be an insult but I am proud to be referred to as a ghostdog. I now refer to my students as ghostdogs. It is a reminder as to how I expect them to move.
We attack the weapon hand which is the threat. I may attack the threat over and over which
frustrates the enemy. We do not stand our ground. We cut or stab and we move, like the wind. It is why we are called ghostdogs. As the enemy goes to strike we have already moved because we walk as we cut. It may look as if we are coming at you but we are moving back. Unlike other systems Apache Knife fighting teaches you, not to hold your ground. Most martial arts teach you to hold your ground. That is one of the ways that makes it different from most fighting styles.
Although I have trained in different martial arts, Apache Knife has no influence of the Japanese, Filipino or Chinese arts. I worked hard to keep it separated and not deluded
From a historical sense, how was the Apache knife utilized by the Apache warrior?. Did they use any other weapon in warfare?.
The knife was used as an everyday tool. It was used for a variety of chores and also used for skinning deer, making spears and arrows, cutting plants for food and eating. So, the knife was available for self defense if the need arose. Although the knife has evolved over time, as has all weapons, it was the one that has stayed as a constant with most all Apaches. It has evolved from wood, stone, animal horns and bone. As metal was made available knife blades were formed or traded. Still to this day a knife is a great utilitarian tool and if need is available for self defense.
The Apache Warriors used many types of weapons. A war-shield, war-clubs, the bow and arrow, spear, ax, slingshots, rope, blanket, scarf and the environment. Later rifles, bayonets, swords and guns were acquired. Whatever weapon of choice a warrior used they still carried a knife and had it as a last resort weapon.
Did the Apache have a means of combating empty handed? Or in cases where they may not have had the option of a knife?.
Yes, Of course. Our fighting skills with a knife are close quarters fighting skills. We usually have one hand empty, so naturally they have some hand combat skills that would overlap. Apaches boys also wrestled and grappled as part of training.
For most cultures there is some kind of Circle of Life symbol with many reasons behind the meaning of the circle itself among the Nations. What is the significance of the circle in Apache culture and combat?.
Yes, the circle is incorporated in many things with the Apache People and in Apache knife fighting. For me the circle means everything. It is like trying to explain what is Yin and Yang. The circle represents religion, birth, life and rebirth. The circle is broken into four sections representing the directions and each have additional meaning. Circles represent the sun, the moon and stars. A circle is the canvas that evokes the blessings and supernatural. The circle is represented in the medicine wheel. The medicine wheel is part of the Native American church. Many rituals and blessings are done in a circle.
The illustration is a medicine wheel. The red feather is representative of my family name and of being wounded in battle. The blue feather represents the never ending journey for perfection. The hands are the generations of my son, myself, my father and my grandfather. The hands are also a symbol of the fluid motion of the wind. The Wind is most powerful in a circle. Both in a hurricane and a tornado. It is a reminder to never fight in a straight line always in a circle. The marks on the wheels represent the hardships, roadblocks and bumps in the circle of life. The bindings are what hold the generations together. The center of the circle is the aspiration of the center of the earth and your peace of mind.
In combat the circle shape of the war-shield represents power and protection. My Apache Knife Fighting System is based movements in circles. The Apache Warriors are known for circling back to catch their enemy’s off guard. They also circle ahead to deceive their enemy. Some Apaches have a circular toe guard on their boots for protection and as a reminder to return home.
Having enjoyed watching your Apache Knife training DVD’s and video’s where you are depicted instructing our U.S. Military Troops and Police Officers, I thought I would ask you if you had any memorable experiences you’d like to share about training our soldiers and law enforcement?.
With law enforcement a question is regularly asked. What would I do in a knife fight. My answer is, I would run. They laugh and think I am joking but I am serious. Getting in a knife fight leads to serious consequences I do not want to have to deal with. Of course there are times when that is not an option and then you have to fight. As a police officer, a knife is your secondary weapon, you should have used your primary weapon first. If you ever have to use your knife something has seriously gone wrong. But as a secondary weapon it can still save your life.
My happiest experiences are when I get a call from an officer or military person thanking me for saving their life or comments of Wow, that really works. I have some challenge coins I have had sent to me because of this and it makes me happy to know I have saved another life.
Are there important physical aspects or conditioning methods you suggest or teach?. What about conditioning against the all sabotaging and cumbersome human emotion of fear?.
Staying in cardiovascular shape is a part of training. Apaches historically are known for running. Being able to control your breath is part of staying calm. There are many reasons to fear in a knife fight. Building confidence in your fighting skills, and in part, conditioning to be familiar with fighting with a knife. Not just your knife but to have someone with a knife sparring with you helps to decrease your anxiety. When students are learning I strongly advise safety gear including use of a hard plastic knife. To practice with safety gear creates students being bold and unfearing. So at some point you need to practice with out safety gear. I still advise wearing safety glasses though. Practicing without the safety gear but with practice knifes brings the element of pain. Pain teaches respect. When the time comes for no safety gear and a real knife, which may be a year or longer, the students practice in slow motion. In slow motion having a real knife is intimidating and creates fear, even when you know your sparring partner. But, wow, does the respect kick in. Eventually you will be able to speed up. Then going back and forth between:
Safety gear and training knife
Safety glasses only and training knife
Safety gear and real knife
Safety glasses only and real knife
Switching it up keeps a nice combination of respect, boldness, and reduces the fear.
What are your personal hopes for this unique and effective Native American Knife fighting system?.
I want the Apache Knife fighting system to continue to be a part of the defense system of our country and an art to live and not be lost. The respect for life, and how it teaches to not hold your ground is a self defense system that I would like to see used more. As a civilian once a threat is done you need to be controlled enough to stop. Not only stop, but if your enemy is injured you need to get help. It sucks that someone that is trying to kill you and now you need to help them. If you injure someone you need to assist them for your own protection so you do not end up going to prison. That is the reality of it. Run away or stop the threat, get help, live another day.
Can you tell us about your new book – Fight Like The Wind Apache Knife?. I can’t wait to get my very own copy!
My new book is about teaching the basics of the Apache Knife Fighting system I created from the teachings of my Grandparents. I include some of my life experiences. I try to give some Apache background and history to help broaden their understanding. I also emphasize the importance of life. It is a self defense system where it is better to have the skills to stop a threat and walk away than confront and hold your ground. My book is not taught from theory but from real life experiences.
As an author myself I have always found the process of writing both laborious and enjoyable, but also entirely worth the effort – similar to martial arts. What are some of the struggles, joys or revelations you may have received during the writing process?. What inspired you to write to take on this book as a writing project?.
I was inspired by a lot of misinformation I was seeing and hearing. I have a friend, Stace Pitts, who kept suggesting I write a book. I did not feel I had this skill so I asked if she was serious and if she would do it with me. She agreed. Putting something into words is very difficult, as opposed to real life, where you can demonstrate and get instant feedback to see if they understand. Having Stace not knowing the Apache Knife fighting system techniques helped guide me in explaining the techniques to put on paper. During the writing process I realize there is no way I can make everybody happy by writing this book so I did my best to keep a happy balance.
As one of North America’s oldest and most effective martial arts, is there a way you recommend aspiring Apache Knife practitioners to begin their warrior journey and carry on this tradition? Do you have any upcoming seminars, events or courses?
I am going to be at the Dragonfest Expo 2019 put on by the Martial Arts History Museum it is the 15th Annual DRAGONFEST expo August 16, 17, 18, 2019. Visit http://www.dragonfest.com .
It was also just announced through the establishment of the Apache Knife Combat Fighting System in 1973, I have the honor of being inducted into of the Martial Arts History Museum’s Hall of Fame for the year 2018. Apache Knife one of the oldest Traditional Native American Art’s. http://www.martialartsmuseum.com .
My next seminar is Sep 14 – Sep 15 · Gilman Park · Fullerton, California. You can always go to http://www.Apache-Knife.com and on Apache-Knife.com facebook to get information on upcoming seminars. I think to have read the book before or after attending a seminar would be beneficial to the aspiring student.
My final question: Where can we purchase or Pre-Order the phenomenal, eye opening book ‘Fight Like The Wind Apache Knife’?
Once the book comes out it will be available thru Lulu.com.
Thank you for answering my questions!. It has been a pleasure interviewing you for Martial Journal and learning more about this very effective Native American system of combat!.
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I can tell by the way this guy shoots his bow and all his brand new Indian regalia he is full of crap. Even shoots his arrows like a European.
Thank you for your Support
Thank you Robert Redfeather for preserving part of history so few today recognize as worthy of its place in history and should be treasured as well as passed on!
If you are planning to learn Knife fighting martial arts, make sure- pace yourself but learn slowly. Obviously, slow is smooth and smooth will eventually become fast. And one day you will become a master in a martial art that will help you to defend yourself when getting attacked.
it is good to have robert redfeather to share the surival and tradition of his people ,the apache knife fighting that is a journay and teaches how to live that life.